Getting married in a foreign country means dealing with red tape, strange customs and the relatives. I like new cultures and customs and it can be interesting exploring other people’s ideas of the world. Occasionally their expectations, which are based on their perceptions get wildly out of whack and need some re-adjustment.
As I already mentioned I will be giving Ikas parents 500,000rp a month for the forseeable future to help them along with their economic situation and to keep requests for help to a minimum. They see me as rich white person who can be tapped like an ATM, with seemingly limitless funds. This of course is not the case.
The other night I asked Ika how much she thought the average American earned in 1 year. She said about $500,000. I asked where she got that figure from and she said when she saw American game shows they gave $100,000 or $500,000 as prizes and thought that was about a years salary.
I had to convince her that those figures were way off.
After my wedding reception this coming saturday I intend to sit down with Ika and my new in-laws and have a perceptions and expectations talk. Actually it will be more of a monologue with me setting out what I promise to do and what I promise I will not do.
Being a democratic type of chap I would like to throw this open to the public and ask for your suggestions for both columns. Examples of the things I promise to do might be : I promise to take care of Ika, to allow her to visit the parents from time to time etc.
Examples of what I promise I will not do might be : Take requests for money, or allow visits from relatives to last over 1 week.
Come on, imagine you had just married a local and the relatives were licking their lips. Where would your line in the sand be? What would you be prepared to commit to?
I think a lot of westerners get in trouble by being overly sensitive to offending anyone and end up agreeing to everything. A mate of mine bought his in-laws a new passenger van only to have another relative steal it. Seems to me the squeeky wheel gets the grease and its better to squeek a little bit at the start before the truck gets rolling. Do not want to try putting the brakes on when we are going along at 70mph and have to explain my limits.
Some people are experts at playing the shock and horror role too after you state your position, so I am tying my monthly contribution to my list of expectations. I think this is a good direction to go in and hope we all end up on the same page.
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Hi Nick,
I don’t understand why the parents ask you to give them money every months. strange!
As far as i know, there’s no rules son in law have to give parents in low money for help their life every month. i think it will be different if ika married with a local.
in my side, even the girl who introduced me to my husband, ask me for money. cos she think i’m married with a “bule” bcos of her. and she thinks that my husband is rich. so i have to give her money or gift every time we go somewhere. its really boring and annoying! but for sure i never give her a cents cos she has work and money. no way!!
Yep Nick,
I also couldn’t understand why you have to give 500K every month to Ika’s parent? Where did the idea come from and how could Ika agrees with it??
This is first time i heard it, that it becomes an obligation for you to support wife’s family. I guess you have spoken to “wrong People” with wrong idea. Agree with Barrie that 500K is too way too much.
When you promise then you have to give. Actually you DO NOT HAVE TO GIVE MONEY. It supposes to be between you and Ika and not between you and Ika’s family.
When you give it to Ika then it is up to her to give it to your family. Sort it out between you and her, and i don’t think you need to have a “meeting” with in law. Enough by telling Ika, what do you expect and what you don’t like.
It is true that in laws will come and stay at your place, this think you can tell Ika only, how you feel and what you like.
The relationship is between you and Ika, you can limit it to that level. 
I am a Javanese and married to a foreigner and i found it also VERY Odd THAT you obligate to give her parents montly 500K. I think that is wrong.
You can give Inka 500K monthly then if she want to give it to her parent than that is different case.
Cheeeeeeeers
Mate
At rp 500,000 @ month you’ve already been pegged as a cash cow !
My friends wife, also from java, picked him because USA was at the top of all the money exchange rates on Legian !
Did you get married because your girlfriend got pregnant ?
I totally agree with Ayu and Coni. You are such a wonderful gentleman that you agreed to provide monthly allowance of Rp500,000… in writing! I’m also married to a foreigner and personaly, I don’t want to “spoil” my parents by sending them fixed monthly allowance. I gave them an understanding that I have set up a savings for them and will use it to contribute (everybody chips in) for urgent family matters, such as paying hospital or doc bills, siblings’ tuition, urgent house remodelling, etc. It allows them to think that we’re not a bank, but we’ll be there for them in time of financial crisis. My mom and siblings are very understanding. My dad sometimes knows his limit. My husband respects my decision wholeheartedly, even though he’s willing to go for an extra mile. But tough love is more needed :-). When we surprised them by sending pocket money and they could do whatever they want with it, they really appreciate it!
I would just let Ika manage the household and give her cash every month to do it. Then if guest and family visit or want money it comes from that budget. It seems like every family has at least one deadbeat that shows up for money and the whole family knows who and already has a way to deal with it. I don’t think sitting down with the family and making rules so early is such a good plan. Imagine if she wanted to sit down with your family and explain the rules to them how well it would go over? Meet the family and embrace the good things and deal with any bad things if and when they happen. Use Ika’s guidance in these matters she has more direct experience and better understands the politics of the situations. I would be surprised if the family and friends came to you for money. I would think they would be too shy and approach Ika. Not to mention you can just play ignorant to the clues they give you that they would like money. Also give the family deadbeat less money than it cost them to visit you and they will soon stop dropping by. :
As far as long term guest you might find you enjoy some. My in-laws visit for up to two months at a time and I have no problem with it and enjoy much of it. If you feel guests are just there to enjoy the comforts of your home, a “plan B” for you could be always have some trip planned that is a lot of work and not so much fun that you need to do for work. Then you can politely invite them and ask them to help by carrying a 100 Kilo pack up a mountain? My guess is they will find it is time to return home.
Nick,
I think it is entirely up to you, how you handle the situation…
We are definately not expected to or have ever been requested to hand any monies over to my in laws whom I adore & am very close with, they all have decent jobs, nice houses & their own lifestyle. We will pay for schooling so the younger ones get a chance at a better education & possible job prospects…
But we have never had any requests for monies. If we send some it get’s put aside for spending monies when we get home or for the up keep of Dede’s room & motorbikes!
I am sure you will sort it out, the best way for yourself & Ika…
Best wishes & I can’t wait to see Photo’s!!!!
Hey, Nick!
I think you’re making too much out of the money matters. Things should be more spontaneous. Nobody should expect your coninuous financial help. You may end up helping any member of your wife’s family just for your own wish. That’s the way things work in the developing world.
When you mention “rules” I think you’re being too much “regulated”. As an example, you say that you may allow Ika to either visit her family or not for a certain period of time.
It sounds that you’re not having a cultural gap, but a social (socio-economic) one, on one hand. On the other hand, you’re not acting as an open-minded Westerner, otherwise you wouldn’t be thinking about “allowing or not” your wife to do this or that. It sounds like the Middle Age.
Sorry to be too intrusive into your personal life.
Take it easy…
Congratulations to both of you!
Hey, Nick!
I think you’re making too much out of the money matters. Things should be more spontaneous. Nobody should expect your coninuous financial help. You may end up helping any member of your wife’s family just for your own wish. That’s the way things work in the developing world.
When you mention “rules” I think you’re being too much “regulated”. As an example, you say that you may allow Ika to either visit her family or not for a certain period of time.
It sounds that you’re not only having a cultural gap, but a social (socio-economic) one as well. On one hand, you’re not acting as an open-minded Westerner, otherwise you wouldn’t be thinking about “allowing or not” your wife to do this or that. It sounds like the Middle Age.
Sorry to be too intrusive into your personal life.
Take it easy…
Congratulations to both of you!
I’ll be interested to hear Nick’s response/feedback to all of this. Thanks for sharing everybody.
Just to clear up one point…someone said, “you are making too much of money matters” - well - Nick has not. It is the family/mother that is always talking about it and asking for this/that/the other. Nick is an extrememly patient and giving dude…I think his patience has been tested these past few weeks and he wants to nip this in the bud before it gets outta control - cuz it almost is now…
Nick will be down from breakfast in the next hour or so and I can’t wait to hear what he has to say. This is so excellent to for him to be able to share like this and get all this feedback…I know he appreciates it.
Wonderful comments! That’s feedback.
My reasons for giving the 500,000rp a month are:
1) I want to be a positive influence in their life.
2) I want to set a pattern and stick to it. Nothing more, nothing less. When I suggested the idea first of all without mentioning a figure Ika said “My mum say she doesn’t want that, we are not the kind of people to ask for money. But she gonna ask you if she needs 2 or 3m rp sometime.”
Of course that ’sometime’ will be be every few weeks so setting a pattern and sticking to it is a healthier way than to have them constantly ask for money and me constantly having to fight them off.
3) My buddy Palu has gone through the wringer already, starting off by taking care of her family with health care, new car, housing help etc. and he suggested that right from the start I give money.
When I sit down and lay out my ground rules I will make sure they know that the monthly cashola will be cut off if ‘monkey business’ starts to happen. I hope that in a year from now we can all feel comfortable with our relationship and not stress about stuff like money.
Well said, Nick. This may sound strange, but I was beginning to feel a bit concerned for you. It was good of you to throw the subject open for comment, but really you’re the only one who knows Ika and her family, so you’re the only one who can make a balanced, informed decision.
The main thing is not to allow anything to cause friction between you and Ika. You two and your coming child are the ones who really count. Everyone else, including close family, is on the outside looking in.
your list sounds almost to direct for dealing with indonesians. might be better to deal with some things as they come up. however i can appreciate your desire to set some boundries up front.
Nick -
You are walking a double edged sword.
I can appreciate your line of thinking:
1. I don’t want to be a walking ATM or rainy day fund
2. Instead of getting hit up frequently for 2-3mil I can give them a steady cashflow for them to plan the ‘unexpected crisis’ that may be looming
3. by being a steady income vehicle, I can always be in a position of power and keep the relationship ‘good’ by threatening to cut the income stream.
While this all may make sense, the key ingredient that you’re missing is:
* What if the in-laws start taking the steady income vehicle for granted, and elevate their lifestyle through it?
* Then a ‘crisis’ still occurs. Will you honestly be able to say ‘no’ if the family water buffalo needs vaccinations?
I can respect your decision and obviously you know better than anyone else, but maybe the key thing to zone in on is the families ability to manage this new found cashflow.
The way to assist in that is to actually put this 500K/month in some sort of ‘escrow’ arrangement. Be it through your wife or some other relative. Basically make it a rainy day fund/reserve that gets topped up every month by you. They can dip into it for crisis situation.
The other way to do it is to follow barrie’s advice. Give them 300K in lifestyle money, and donate 200K/month to an account that your wife owns but can’t access - the point of which is to earmark the cash for the next ‘crisis’.
Best of luck and congrats.
Nick, Best of luck with your new wife and the whole wedding ceremony and gift obligations in Indonesia. It’s so fascinating and honest that I’ve posted some links at my blog, and I wish you both the best of luck.
But it certainly seems to be the majority opinion that nobody in prior times has promised or been obligated to pay the parents of your bride some sort of monthly monetary support.
Are you now starting new expectations from Javanese parents whose daughters go to Bali and marry foreigners? This is a place you do not want to go.
Nick, was the wedding expensive? Did Ika’s parents pay for it or did you have to pay for all of it?
I am most impressed with your patience and generosity.
Nick, I’m married to an Indonesian and I have to agree that you will be seen as an atm. Your idea of paying 500k and drawing a line in the sand is both generous and wise, just make sure you don’t waver or your sunk and you’ll be seen as a real pelit bastard. As for family visits, if you like having them do it, if not say so or plan B. Having Indonesian relatives can be a real joy and/or difficult and money can be a major problem but in the end it should work itself out
Nick, your decision to give them 500k a month is generous, you can’t go back on it now but stay firm that that is all, I wouldn’t even consider extras othwise your right, you’ll be hit all the time. Family visits, if you like having them okay, if not say so or move to plan B, some Indonesian families can be a real joy and others not. As for the nationality of the child I read in an earlier post, because you are married and as your British the kid will automatically be british. If you were Australian the kid has to be registered first at the Aus consulate to be Australian, if not and the mother is Indo and the kid is born in Indo it can be Indonesian because it has no other nationality (the Indonesians are very strict about this and the immigration guys get upset when you “work” the system. A lot of foreign men married to Indonesian women end up “divorcing” (that is going through the legal process of divorce, but still being a family) so the kids can follow the mother and have minimal visa problems. Anyway there are lots of expats in Bali so find out the best thing to do.
Cheers all,
Great ideas and there are obviously many ways to go about the issue.
Right after the reception on Saturday I got Ika and her mother alone in a bedroom. I announced I had some things to say and started off by thanking her for welcoming me into the family, arranging the wedding and what not.
I had a 10 pointl ist of ‘things I promise to do’ and another list of ‘things I promise I won’t do’.
The way things played out was she had to sit and listen I while monologued then slowly get the grip of the message. There were 3 points i stressed. 1) I promise to be regular and punctual with my payment, 2) I will be angry (actually used that word) if I get requests for money or outside pressure, 3) Will cut off money if that happens.
I think its pretty clear.
Ika told us the price for a kilo of beras (uncooked rice ) is something like 1,000rp out of a 20 kilo sack. You can imagine how cheap a person could knock out food in that part of the country. I think 500,000rp a month will be a very nice addition to their lives.
I don’t want the hassle of hearing how they spent it and lost it and need more. I mae my key points very strongly and will stick to them. Granny is in hospital, little brother needs money for college, dad’s motor bike won’t start…save up for a few months and you’ll be fine.
I think when we get a little pattern underway everything will be cool.
The story will be different, if ur wife’s family are wealthy. This is not western vs indonesian cultural problem, but I think this is more rich vs poor problem. The sad thing is locals always think that westerners = money.
The story will be different if ur wife’s family are wealthy. This is not Indonesian vs Western culture problem I guess, this is purely Poor - Rich problem. The saddest things is locals always think that westerners = money.
G’Day Nick,
I thought you presented yourself in an excellent manner and covered everything. Well done mate.
Now, get on with your new life and enjoy the happiness that is to follow!
I can see that you married each other for true love. The respect you hold for her and her family is incredible. Does this girl (that means your new bride) speak and write English? Does she realise how you portrait her and her family? Is it the norm to show your dirty laundry to the public?, I thought most Indonesians were private people. What a way to start married life, letting the world in such private matters, why didn’t you continue with a detailed description of your wedding night? Most of the comments made not only degraded her and her family but also degraded the Indonesia that you love so much. How dare you mock these people? You make out that you were such a great catch. OH PLEASE!How big of you 29 pounds a month, whoopee!
I can see that you married each other for true love. The respect you hold for her and her family is incredible. Does this girl (that means your new bride) speak and write English? Does she realise how you portrait her and her family? Is it the norm to show your dirty laundry to the public?, I thought most Indonesians were private people. What a way to start married life, letting the world in such private matters, why didn’t you continue with a detailed description of your wedding night? Most of the comments made not only degraded her and her family but also degraded the Indonesia that you love so much. How dare you mock these people? You make out that you were such a great catch. OH PLEASE!How big of you 29 pounds a month, whoopee!
I can see that you married each other for true love. The respect you hold for her and her family is incredible. Does this girl (that means your new bride) speak and write English? Does she realise how you portrait her and her family? Is it the norm to show your dirty laundry to the public?, I thought most Indonesians were private people. What a way to start married life, letting the world in such private matters, why didn’t you continue with a detailed description of your wedding night? Most of the comments made not only degraded her and her family but also degraded the Indonesia that you love so much. How dare you mock these people? You make out that you were such a great catch. OH PLEASE!How big of you 29 pounds a month, whoopee!
I can see that you married each other for true love. The respect you hold for her and her family is incredible. Does this girl (that means your new bride) speak and write English? Does she realise how you portrait her and her family? Is it the norm to show your dirty laundry to the public?, I thought most Indonesians were private people. What a way to start married life, letting the world in such private matters, why didn’t you continue with a detailed description of your wedding night? Most of the comments made not only degraded her and her family but also degraded the Indonesia that you love so much. How dare you mock these people? You make out that you were such a great catch. OH PLEASE!How big of you 29 pounds a month, whoopee!
I can see that you married each other for true love. The respect you hold for her and her family is incredible. Does this girl (that means your new bride) speak and write English? Does she realise how you portrait her and her family? Is it the norm to show your dirty laundry to the public?, I thought most Indonesians were private people. What a way to start married life, letting the world in such private matters, why didn’t you continue with a detailed description of your wedding night? Most of the comments made not only degraded her and her family but also degraded the Indonesia that you love so much. How dare you mock these people? You make out that you were such a great catch. OH PLEASE!How big of you 29 pounds a month, whoopee!
I can see that you married each other for true love. The respect you hold for her and her family is incredible. Does this girl (that means your new bride) speak and write English? Does she realise how you portrait her and her family? Is it the norm to show your dirty laundry to the public?, I thought most Indonesians were private people. What a way to start married life, letting the world in such private matters, why didn’t you continue with a detailed description of your wedding night? Most of the comments made not only degraded her and her family but also degraded the Indonesia that you love so much. How dare you mock these people? You make out that you were such a great catch. OH PLEASE!How big of you 29 pounds a month, whoopee!
I can see that you married each other for true love. The respect you hold for her and her family is incredible. Does this girl (that means your new bride) speak and write English? Does she realise how you portrait her and her family? Is it the norm to show your dirty laundry to the public?, I thought most Indonesians were private people. What a way to start married life, letting the world in such private matters, why didn’t you continue with a detailed description of your wedding night? Most of the comments made not only degraded her and her family but also degraded the Indonesia that you love so much. How dare you mock these people? You make out that you were such a great catch. OH PLEASE!How big of you 29 pounds a month, whoopee!
I can see that you married each other for true love. The respect you hold for her and her family is incredible. Does this girl (that means your new bride) speak and write English? Does she realise how you portrait her and her family? Is it the norm to show your dirty laundry to the public?, I thought most Indonesians were private people. What a way to start married life, letting the world in such private matters, why didn’t you continue with a detailed description of your wedding night? Most of the comments made not only degraded her and her family but also degraded the Indonesia that you love so much. How dare you mock these people? You make out that you were such a great catch. OH PLEASE!How big of you 29 pounds a month, whoopee!
Hi Nick,
I’m sure you’ll soon learn the pros and cons of having a ‘mixed’ marriage. And they can be very compatible as thousands of us have discovered. Just be careful that you don’t tie up all your resources; you might have your own rainy day sometime.
You might like to consider, if you haven’t already done so, paying your wife a set monthly amount, by bank transfer if her local bank can handle it :-). Then it will be up to your missus to help out her family as and when they need support and when she can afford it.
Some expats here are very happy to become part of an Indonesian family. Others refer to them as the outlaws.
Me? I’m quite happy that mine live in Medan.
Have a good life both of you.
Hi Nick,
I’m sure you’ll soon learn the pros and cons of having a ‘mixed’ marriage. And they can be very compatible as thousands of us have discovered. Just be careful that you don’t tie up all your resources; you might have your own rainy day sometime.
You might like to consider, if you haven’t already done so, paying your wife a set monthly amount, by bank transfer if her local bank can handle it :-). Then it will be up to your missus to help out her family as and when they need support and when she can afford it.
Some expats here are very happy to become part of an Indonesian family. Others refer to them as the outlaws.
Me? I’m quite happy that mine live in Medan.
Have a good life both of you.
Hi Nick,
I’m sure you’ll soon learn the pros and cons of having a ‘mixed’ marriage. And they can be very compatible as thousands of us have discovered. Just be careful that you don’t tie up all your resources; you might have your own rainy day sometime.
You might like to consider, if you haven’t already done so, paying your wife a set monthly amount, by bank transfer if her local bank can handle it :-). Then it will be up to your missus to help out her family as and when they need support and when she can afford it.
Some expats here are very happy to become part of an Indonesian family. Others refer to them as the outlaws.
Me? I’m quite happy that mine live in Medan.
Have a good life both of you.
Hey Nick,
Hows it going now?. Just stumbled across your blog.. im worried after reading your blog “Making a list of expectations for Ikas parents in Semarang Java” as I have to marry an Indonesian too next year. Im in a state of shock actually.. just a little.
Until I read this thread, I did not realize what a gigantic clown you are, Nick.
You got converted to Islam, but don’t care two hoots about the religion … you got married to someone because (take your pick) a) no Brit would get (stay) married to you (b) you got her pregnant (Jan wedding, July delivery) (c) you are too dumb to figure out that she was marrying you only for the money
And of course the biggest laugh is the fact that you discuss all this on a blog .. couldn’t agree more with Sharon earlier.
Boy, PT Barnum was right - suckers are born every minute!
i’d say, marry a hindu… and even then, it doesn’t matter, if you go live there, you just have to be, stay, act who you are, a pretty openminded westener, who wants to have some fun, and is willing to help a hand here and there, but also, who doesn’t let people messing around with him. You just have to show people ( expats and locals) that you are a rightious guy, but you dont like to get fucked ( well, enless its a beautiful woman lol)
i understand this sharon too, but its not about the 29 ponds, it’s the idea they would see you as an ATM .
Well you dont know all these people, so we cant make a proper judgement, it can go either ways
I feel blessed and lucky to marry my husband after I read all these comments. We both are working and he lets me deal with our money. He doesn’t mind to send some money to my dad every month and helping out some poor relatives. My dad is not poor and never asked for money but It is just our way to thank him for raising me and sending me to a good school. I can not be there to take care of him in his old ages. Taking care of parents is one of our way to repay our parents. Your parents take care of you when you are young until you become adult, now it is your turn to take care of your parents when they are old. We do the same thing to my husband’s folks, not in money wise but in caring, loving, lots of attention and gifts. We make sure that our children learn from it and do the same thing to us. I can’t deny that some Indonesian girls married foreigner for dinero but not all of them.
Hey you all,
Very fascinating topic. My contributionn is a simple one, married to a person of LOWER SOCIAL STATUS will always be about money. There is no welfare system in Indo, so you become one. Good Luck.
G’Day Nick,
Regarding rellies:
1. 1 week minimum stay is fine every 3 months.
2. You definitely do not intend being their source of income for any reason (unless its a dire situation)
3. Definitely no ‘can-I-stay-just-for-a-few-days’ visits (they usually end up being months!)
4. I still maintain that Rp500,000 per month is too much considering they have their own business. I would have said Rp300,000 tops. Fix it at that irregardless of the rise in cost of living.
As far as them asking your income, it realy is none of their business. I think you will find that once they know then theyt will start putting the screws in via Ika.
I realise that i have never met Ika’s parents, but it is logical thought.