This is part II of an interview with Debbie who is planning to move to Bali for part of the year with her husband Jay.
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Nick: How have your interactions been this time with locals and westerners?
Deb: With locals its been more joyous because I can have a variety of conversations now, in Bahasa. For example a driver who is Hindu was able to speak a lot about a general fear they have of being the only island that is Hindu since the bombing. A fear not of Muslim people but of fundamental extremists. It felt good to have a political conversation pretty much in Indonesian. Also on the beach at Uluwatu I was able to enjoy a conversation with a Balinese masseur. He was telling me about a pilot who was very wealthy and had 3 swimming pools built at his house on the cliff around Uluwatu. This man had no wife or children to share these with and my friend asked me why he would need 3 swimming pools. We could only conclude that with all his wealth one must be for him, one must be for is friends and one must be to wash sapi’s (cows). We had a laugh on that and it felt really rich. It was better to have conversation about other things than ‘am I married?’ and when ‘will I have children?’. A driver from Candi Dasa told me he was from Sumatra and he loved living in Bali because of the freedom he had from Muslim back home and he really appreciated it.
Nick: Does Bali still retain that special/village feel that people think of when they think of Bali?
Deb: I would say that Balinese people retain something that is desirable to most western adults and that is their ability to fully engage in the moment or the present. You find this especially in village areas but it can still be found in the heart of the tourist shopping streets and I think this is because of the Hindu offerings that bring a certain mindfulness to the present moment. For example a retail assistant may step outside on a busy street and do her ritual offering and if she is conscious it makes her very mindful of the sacredness of that present moment.
Nick: Have your views of the Balinese changed since being here this time?
Deb: No. I believe their attention to ritual and aesthetic beauty is something that appeals to the artist in me.
Nick: Have your views of westerners changed since being here this time?
Deb: There are westerners who remain on the outside of experience by retaining a western mind frame and there are those who know when to put on their ‘Balinese hat’ and flow with the Balinese people.
Nick: Where there any negatives on this trip?
Deb: Visiting Ubud. Last time I visited in 1993 it was a little town with not much going on. Now its so much more developed and the main street, Jl. Raya Ubud had bus loads of Asian tourists. I think I saw about 70 buses and there were so many people it was hard to even walk down the street.
Nick: What would you say to tourists who complain about the beach vendors in Kuta and the over development of Bali?
Deb: That it’s quite a clever design keeping all the snakes from different cultures in one area.
Nick: What advice would you give to someone who is coming to Bali but wants to avoid the herd of package tourists?
Deb: Go up to Sarinbuana Eco Lodge just before Mt. Batukaru, or else walk to a fishing village near Gilimanuk or else just wander down the back streets of Kuta with your phrase book.
Nick: What would you like to say to the Balinese about how they should handle their future development?
Deb: I guess my biggest concern are the resources . I see a lot of wood, stone and cement that I think is made from coral reefs. I wonder how they are going to respect their physical environment when for example they have so many rubbish piles in rivers an when they are growing rice en mass and weakening the soil. What are their environment goals. These are my concerns and I’d ask what is their ecological plan.
Nick: What would you like to say to the Indonesian government about how they should help Bali develop?
Deb: Draft up a policy that requires Javanese business men to meet some environmental standards a pre requisit to building malls, cinemas and resorts in Bali. Don’t stop them but they need to have guidelines. The government needs to draft that document with the local Balinese people involved.
Nick: Since being in Bali this time have you been in any situation where you have seen blatant corruption.?
Deb: When people raise their prices because I am a westerner that seems logical if I were to be in their shoes but its still short term. If I am going to be here a long time I won’t go back to them so its logical for tourism but not logical for people who are going to live here and they need to know that.
Nick: Indonesia has 17,000 islands. What is it that makes Bali special and different from all the others?
Deb: Firstly its quite lush in vegetation, for example Timor, at least in 1993, was dry and barren. Secondly the Hindu religion which is in it own doctrine more accepting of any other religion, gives the people a certain gracefulness. Thirdly the art and craft that is actively cultivated in various villages such as the silversmith and the woodworkers etc.
Nick: Coming from the highlands of New Guinea you must see some similarities with life here in Bali and the way people interact.
Deb: The biggest difference is safety. The Balinese although they have a history of warriors seem more gentle and passive by nature. New Guineans are not passive by nature. Their understanding of karma makes them observe a socially democratic moral code.
Nick: What are your personal hopes for your move to Bali?
Deb: To balance a work ethic with a more peaceful lifestyle because at the moment I feel like a workaholic in the west. I believe that society doesn’t value ‘down time’ and leisure time like the Indonesians do. My lifestyle in the west is not sustainable long term because the society works by the ‘minute’ and the Balinese work by the ‘moon’ and give themselves a bigger circle of time to achieve things in.
Nick: Why did you and your husband Jay decide to move to Bali part time?
Deb: We loved Indonesia when we came through in 1993. We loved the people of a lot of islands, not just Bali, but Bali seems to offer a mix of some of the conveniences that we have come to appreciate as well as the pace of life that is slower than our lives in the west.
Nick: Can you see a time in the future where you and Jay move over here full time?
Deb: Yes. Don’t know when. I think we saw that in our 3rd day in the mountains.
Nick: What was lacking in Australia for you?
Deb: The fact that Balinese people think outside of the box, a resourcefulness that gives them a certain lateral thinking. In Australia we seem to be living in squares, we don’t think outside of the box. Also in Noosa restaurant kitchens close at 9pm and in Bali restaurants are open and ceremonies go all though the night. My husband attended one and got home very thrilled. I think we want to support the Balinese people after the bombing because we certainly don’t want to support John Howard’s fear campaign.
Nick: Do you think Australian tourists benefit and learn from their interactions with the Balinese?
Deb: Everyone learns what they are capable of leaning and it’s up to each individual, what they demand from life. Some people want a mutual exchange, some people don’t. I want to learn the language as soon as possible. That would give me my rich reward, but you can still receive the essence of these people without it perhaps.
Nick: Any other thoughts you’d like to share?
Deb: I feel largely uninformed about the caste structure here and would like to know how it affects the way Balinese people interact with each other.
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Debbie and her husband Jay plan to move to Bali July 2005 for a 6 month period.
Debbie from Papua New Guinea part I
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BAZZA, interesting reading the what nick did on this day last year section…
you were in Bali & I was counting down!!!
Hi Tracey,
Yeah, that’s right!. I still have a little bit longer.
I obtained my International Drivers Licence this morning and they gave me this little book on road rules and signs etc. The crazy thing is that in the book it had almost every country except Indo!.
Reckon the guy that wrote the book obviously had a drive in Indo at one time or another and was too shell-shocked at the way Indonesians drive!!
G’Day Nick,
Interesting lady with some insight and projective thoughts. Debbie is spot on about Australians and their little squares!.
Very nice interview mate.